Photos: Hassan Muhammad

[Editor’s note: The following article contains edited excerpts from the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan’s interview with Felisha Monet of Miami’s WEDR 99 JAMZ radio show, conducted Wednesday, July 29, 2015 during the “Justice Or Else!” tour in advance of The 20th Anniversary of The Million Man March Gathering in Washington, D.C. on 10.10.15.]


In The Name of Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful.

Felisha Monet (FM):  Good morning!  First, let me say that I am honored and humbled to be here in this moment.  I’m almost kind of speechless; it’s a very surreal moment for me, but I’m so very thankful.  I’m thankful for you, I’m thankful for your teachings, your words, your fearlessness, your contributions to our culture.  So with that said, I am humbled to be able to sit and have a very real open and honest conversation with you.  Welcome, the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan.


Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan prays before interview. Photos: Hassan Muhammad

The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan (HMLF): Thank you very much.  I’m honored myself to be a part of your show.  And as we prayed before we entered this conversation:  My prayer is also that the words of our mouth and the meditation of our hearts will be acceptable in the sight of God.  Because the minds of our listeners are sacred, and the only thing that the mind, the human mind, should feed on is truth; so, I pray that this will be one hour filled with truth, and the power that the truth conveys.


FM:  As I’m sure it will.  So “Justice Or Else!”:  We are getting ready to come up on the 20-Year Anniversary of The Million Man March, “10.10.15.”  And I’m curious as to what the “Or Else!” means?

HMLF:  Whenever God sends a prophet into the world to bring both guidance and warning, in the guidance and the warning is contained a threat.  So when the wicked do not respond properly to the guidance that is given and the warning that is given, to move away from The Wrath of God, then the threat becomes their destruction.  So as it was in the days of Noah, when the minds of the people were continually to do evil:  Noah warned them.  And the warning continued for almost 150 years; and the people went on with their lives…  And as both the Bible (especially the Bible) and The Qur’an teaches: They were drinking, they were partying; they were giving in marriage—they were doing those things that they were doing while they continued to do evil.  So in that hour, the threat came to pass and God killed them all, except those few that got in The Ark. 



And so it was in this dual city of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is a real city in Palestine:  The people were engaged in an action that is considered an “abomination,” and God sent Lot through Abraham to warn them that their behavior was unacceptable to God.  And they were offered a chance to change, and they did not, so two angels entered Sodom; they were guests in the house of the Prophet Lot, and the wicked came to the house of Lot seeking to have sex with the angels who were men.  And Lot offered them his two daughters, and they didn’t want the daughters; they wanted the men.  And so death came, the cities were overturned…  Everyone was killed except Lot and his family; his two daughters.  And his wife was of those ordained to be left behind.  Those things are put in the Bible and Qur’an as signs and warnings, because in the Bible it says, “As it was in the days of Noah/As it was in the days of Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.”

So, yes:  What good is it to say “justice” and there is no threat?  We don’t have time to play with the principle of justice!  Justice is a principle of fair dealing—we have never been dealt fairly since our fathers set the soles of their feet in the Western Hemisphere.  Neither have our Indigenous brothers and sisters called “Native Americans”; they haven’t been dealt with fairly!  Neither have the Mexicans, and so many others.  So justice is what we want.  And we’re not playing with the government of the United States of America; we are demanding what God demands of us!  And there definitely is an “or else” from us, but the biggest “Or Else” comes from God Himself.

FM:  You speak of “justice.”  Clearly, we don’t know what that is as long as we’ve been here.  What does that look like?  What does that feel like?  Is that even obtainable?

HMLF:  The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said: “Justice is a principle of fair dealing; justice is the law that distinguishes between right and wrong.”  But he also said, “Justice is a Weapon that God will use in the Day of Judgment.”  He said, “If justice were in the world there would not need to be a Judgment.”  But since the world is run by a satanic mind, and justice is not the order of the day, justice is denied.  Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., said “the arc of the universe bends toward justice.”  So even if I can’t get justice in the courts of America, which are run by White Supremists, that is not The Court that ultimately has justice in Its grip.

Felisha Monet and the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan. Photo: Hassan Muhammad


Thomas Jefferson said, “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever.”  So what is it (justice)?  It’s “what you sow, you have to reap it”—that law is at work every single day of our lives!  If the courts don’t do their job, the law of justice contained in the universe will do that job!  No man or woman can escape the consequences of their actions; so in The Qur’an, there is a section that says “every deed has its consequence.”  And this is the day when The God of justice will give to every man, every woman, every nation, what that nation has earned.  And so The Qur’an says you will see “every nation bowing down before its Book.”  Everything is written…  And the evil of America?  A great evil that America has done to the Indigenous people!  A great evil America has done to the Blacks—who didn’t come here on The Niña, The Pinta or The Santa Maria, but The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade is a crime that they have not paid for yet!  But this is reaping time.  I am happy to announce to the enemies of justice:  Your time has come, and you will not escape the Wrath of God!

And the sad thing is, when Thomas Jefferson said he “trembles”:  He was, in present time, trembling for his people in a future time!  Nobody escapes.  So the children of Jefferson today, that have lived deliciously based upon what he did, and the evil of what he did and the justice that he didn’t do:  He knew one day they would have to pay.  And I am here to warn America:  This is that time, and you will pay:  “Justice…Or Else!”  And since you didn’t do Justice, the “or else” is now present in America and in the world.  This world’s time is up!

FM:  Do you think (this generation of) White people can help aid our generation, the younger people, in the fight for justice in a very compassionate and genuine way, and not out of a sense of guilt?

HMLF:  Well let’s deal with the principle of justice.  The scripture says, “Set up slaughter for the children even to the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me.”  You can’t get away, just because you’re White and young, from the evil of your parents unless you are willing to do what you made O.J. Simpson do!  He won in the court:  The court said he was not guilty; but they went back in civil court and found him responsible

Young White people:  You didn’t do this, but you’re in a place of benefit now because of what your fathers did.   I like that movie The Godfather; because in the end when Michael was in church at the christening of his sister’s child, the priest asked him, “Michael, do you believe in God?”  He said, “Yes.”  And then, “Michael, do you renounce Satan and all his works?”  Boy…  And Michael said, “I do”—but at the same time, he was killing all the members of the five families.  See, “justice”:  You can’t play with it.  The hearts of Black people want to include White people in the quest for justice; and, that’s your good heart.  But White people now have to earn a “pass.”  And the only way they can earn a pass from what their fathers have done is to accept the responsibility that they are in the good position that they’re in because of what was done to us and to the native people of this hemisphere.  So my question to you for them is:  “Are you willing to accept responsibility, and help in the cause of justice for those who have been deprived?”  That’s your “pass”!  But if you prove to be just like your fathers, then “prepare slaughter for the children for the evil of their fathers even to the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me.”  Nobody gets a “pass” today except by The Mercy of God.  Not you, not I, not your mother, not your father; everybody has to give an account for how you lived your life.  So today, whatever you put out, expect it back.  This is The Time of Judgment and Justice.  And I thank God for such a horrible hour for the wicked—but a great hour for those of us who have suffered at their hands.

FM:  You’ve lived through so many decades, and you’ve been fighting for justice, and you’ve been fighting for the equality of Black [and] Brown people.  Did you ever think that we would still be here?  I talked to my father, and he’s just like, “Oh, you don’t know what it’s like,” “you know, you young kids got it good,” and it’s almost like this sense of it is “a thing of [the] past”—but for me and my generation, I feel like we’re still dealing with it in a very real way.  Does it feel different for you?  Because you were there, fighting, and you’re here now, fighting.

HMLF:  How were we fighting?  We were fighting for simple things; not really for justice, but to be accepted by the White man in his places of business where we were rejected.  We couldn’t be buried in a cemetery with them, we couldn’t go to a toilet that said “White,” you know?  Well, we wanted to change that; that’s not justice, that’s simple dignity of a fellow human being.  That’s not justice!  And we had to die to integrate a toilet?  We had to die to integrate a lunch counter?  We had to kneel down, and pray?  That’s not justice.  We never got justice! 

Even the simple dignity of spending our money with our former slave masters and their children broke us, not them!  Integration never helped us—it helped them, because our consumer dollars went more to them than to ourselves.  When your father was growing up, if he grew up in the South:  We had to spend our money with ourselves because White folk didn’t want our dollars in their stores.  Boy, that’s something…  So we had our own Black baseball teams.  You may not remember, but your dad does:  We had our own little things, [then] all of a sudden, “Jackie Robinson.”  Do you think the White man really wanted Jackie, except that Jackie would bring Black people to the White ball park, and they would be wealthy while Black people got a little bit of money, with an “elastic band” on it from White people—that they give you money and take it right back, because you don’t know how to use your wealth because you’ve never been taught?! 

No, we weren’t fighting for “justice.”  We wanted to be close to our former slave masters; we wanted to be accepted by them.  So when it looked like they accepted us with this hypocritical trick of “integration,” we end up right where we are right now:  Still crying out for justice?  You said it yourself, you didn’t know what “justice” was.  “Justice” isn’t going to a toilet with a White man, “justice” is not going to school, sitting with White children!  “Justice” is getting the knowledge that will allow you to provide for yourself!  They never wanted you to have that kind of knowledge.  So here we are…  But the fight is coming to an end:  We’re in the “championship rounds” now.  And we will win!  Real “justice” comes from God because the White man doesn’t have it in him to give it.

FM:  In terms of police brutality:  I just read an article earlier this week that said that the races that are most likely to be killed by police officers are of course African Americans, and Native Americans, at a larger rate, because they make up [a] smaller [percentage] of the population.  How important is it to make sure that we are unified, between the Black community, the Native American community, and the Latino community as well, in this—in this fight?

HMLF:  The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said, “Our unity is more powerful than the acquisition of a hydrogen or atomic bomb.”  We’ve waded in, prayed in, cried in, crawled in; we’ve marched, we’ve—we’ve sat down, and done things that remove dignity from us just to be accepted…  We’ve never tried unity. 

And even though we talk “unity,” we don’t know what that is!  But the enemy does; because every time we try to unite, he comes in between it to keep us weak so that we can’t get the things that we should get, that God has asked for us, “freedom, justice, equality.”  We could get it overnight if we were united.  So that’s our “fight”!  Our fight today is to unify the Black man, first!  Because you can’t get unity with the Brown if you’re not unified among yourself; you can’t get unity with the Red if you are not unified among yourself!  “Charity” starts with self, and home; then it spreads abroad. 

So yes, we want unity with the Brown, we want unity with the Red; we want unity with those who struggle like we struggle!  But the first unity is with “self.”  So Jesus said this, “I give you a commandment this day…”—Moses gave 10, Jesus gave two; but the two commandments that Jesus gave were more powerful than the 10 that Moses gave!  So the scriptures teach (Luke 10:25-37) Jesus said:  “Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.”  Let’s stop there for a minute.  See, if I love God?  Man, He is worthy to be loved.  He’s not worthy to be loved with something of myself, because “myself” is what He gave me.  I owe Him all—so don’t ask me to pledge allegiance to a flag that hasn’t done anything for me.  I give my allegiance to God Who gave me life, Who gave me my gift, Who gave me eyes to see and ears to hear, and a tongue to speak and hands to form what comes as a vision in my mind.  Who gives gifts better than God?  So I have nothing for a flag that does nothing for me!  I owe it all to God.  “And the second commandment,” he said, “is like unto the first: Love your neighbor as yourself.” 

One guy was listening to Jesus, and, he thought he would be “smart,” and he asked Jesus a question:  “Well, who is my ‘neighbor’?”  That’s a good question!  Because now we’re defining who is “the neighbor” that we should love as ourselves—that’s a big thing!  Black folk don’t know who to love!  And you don’t know who to love if you don’t first love God, and then love yourself!  How can you love what you don’t know?  You don’t know yourself—and the enemy made sure that we would never know the reality of “who” we are! …

The church has not been our friend; that’s why Pope Francis [was] down in South America (July 2015); but he asked Ecuador, Bolivia and Paraguay:  “Would you forgive the church?”  Forgive the church??  I thought the church represented Jesus!  Did Jesus do anything wrong to the people of Bolivia, to the people of Paraguay, to the people of Ecuador?  Jesus is not guilty—but the church is guilty; of the slaughter of the Indigenous people of this hemisphere.  So the pope asked for forgiveness; but, they haven’t done the neighborly thing.  White America:  Have you been neighborly to us?  Man!  If the church has failed (and it really has failed, now); so, God comes out of the shadows to help us come up out of this condition n…  So, I’m in love with God. 

He has no equal, no partner—and I’m not sharing my love for God with an enemy that don’t deserve my love!  It’s my people who have been victimized that deserve my love, and deserve the love of God; and it is out of that love that I have worked for 60 years; and I am not tired!  And I know I’ll be the winner in the end, living or dead.

FM:  As a woman, as a mother speaking, with my sisters:  How can we help?  What is required of us?

HMLF:  Oh, that’s so big…  Our women are the key.  A nation is taken down through the woman, and a nation goes up through the woman.  You mean everything to our struggle.  And the sad thing about when a conquering army comes to a nation to fight for whatever that nation has in terms of land or mineral wealth:  When the conquering army conquers the army of that nation, they have conquered the men of that nation; and the prize to the conqueror is the woman.  They have access to the material wealth of that country; they have access to the real wealth of that country, which is the woman!

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said, “Your woman is like your field through which you produce your future.”  Any farmer that produces a crop:  He works to destroy the enemies of that crop!  You are our earth, and from you every good thing that we’ve ever produced came from you.  And the sad thing about it, when you love your Black man, and you marry him—because in him you find someone that you’re attracted to, that you believe will be a good man for you—you’re only to find, as time goes on, he is not all that you thought he should be. 

Nature has put in you a demand; and, Nature has put in us a demand on you.  (But) your demand has to be met before our demand from you can be met.  The Qur’an, in the 4th Chapter, the 1st verse (Al-Nisa “The Women”) says, “Keep your duty to Allah as it ought to be kept”; “Allah Who created you from a single essence, and He created your mate of the same.”  And He put in you a demand that you make on each other:  Your nature demands something from a man, and a man’s nature demands something from you.  You cannot expect the woman to give you what you demand if you, in the first place, don’t give her what her nature demands.  Her nature demands a man to maintain, to uplift, to help to guide, to be a provider for and a protector of.  That’s her nature.  And what you get from her in return for being a man is what God put in every woman:  The consolation, the care, the love that makes a man willing to go out and work the field—or fight the enemy—to come back home to be loved, to be nurtured again by the brilliant mind of a woman.  That was not just created for pleasure, but she is your second self; and in her is the same thing that it’s in you from God.  And so when you get married, sometimes you have “your first child” in your husband.  That’s very disappointing to hear…  But the Honorable Elijah Muhammad set up a Class [for the women, “The M.G.T. and G.C.C.”]:  He knew that we were not the men that we could be; every man out there is capable of satisfying the woman that married him—but she has to know, now, how to help him to be the great man that he is born to be.  And so our women have a double job on themselves:  They have to rear the children that come from a marriage, but they also have to help that man to be what they hoped he would be.  And that’s where we run out of knowledge.  And that’s why men run from women today into the arms of another man… 

Oh, it’s sad!  I’m sorry; I don’t mean to hurt the feelings of our brothers and sisters who are listening.  I love you all, and I know that no man “playing a woman” can be a woman.  And no woman “playing a man” can be a man.  When the real thing comes along, you have to take your seat.  And that’s why the world is so upset, because the men are broken.  We are broken!  And you already have been the “booty” of the conqueror.  We couldn’t tell the conqueror, “You can’t sleep with my woman”:  In the South, the sheriff could come to the house of a beautiful child of a Black man and woman, and tell the man, “Send your daughter out to me!”—and he would take that young girl and do with her what he pleased, and then send her back, like a piece of garbage.  And we suffered that kind of thing.  And, what do you think that did to a woman; that that man [of hers] was so weak, the White man could come and demand his daughter?  And then today, some of us are so doggone weak and wicked, we’ll sleep with our daughters.  You can’t even bring a beautiful girl into the world…  As a woman, it’s your duty to protect your child; to not let any man [abuse your child], even if it’s your father, or the father!  And I’ve seen [instances where] fathers sleep with their daughters, make them pregnant, and the woman knows that this is going on and she doesn’t have the courage to stand up for the life of her child!  This is what we confront all the time…  That’s why we need to be separated from this enemy:  So that the disease of having been a slave can be healed.  We need to be “quarantined” for a while, to let God work on us. 

As long as you’re with the enemy, you’re gonna continue to be the type of human being that he made you, because he made you into himself.  “Come out of her, My people,” the scripture says; and even Dr. King, in the last year of his life, said, “I can see why separation is necessary for a time.” You come up with the measles, the mumps?  You can’t just walk around!  They would put a sign on your door, in the old days, “You’re quarantined,” so your health can be restored.  Elijah Muhammad said, “It’s better to teach separation than to teach prayer.”  There’s nothing more powerful than prayer—but praying in the house of the enemy, and living the life of the enemy, you’re still victimized as a praying slave; a praying freak!  So, we can continue to pray, because prayer is the greatest force to restrain us from the doing of evil; but, as long as you stay in the cesspool that made you sick all your prayers will never make you righteous!  We have to leave him!  And go into a land of our own, where we can be healed and cleansed, and made whole again, that God may use us for His glory. … … 

There comes a time in your life when you can’t take no more; that’s the time you decide “it’s either life or death”—but tyranny has to cease.  That’s the time we’re living in now.  No more “Trayvon Martin,” no more “Tamir Rice,” no more “Eric Garner,” because that’s always going to be until we decide that must end.  And when you decide it will end, it will end, because then you’re ready to pay whatever the price is to bring it to an end.  May God Bless us.

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